Difference between revisions 207555 and 207558 on enwiki

is this really [[NPOV]]?
:More to the point, is it ''at all'' quantifiable?  How do you compare how much of a flop something is?  Also, why make it so colloquial?  How about [[list of product failures]]?  (and don't forget [[Nerds cereal]].  ;-)  Cheers, [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|--KQ]] 00:06 Sep 9, 2002 (UTC)

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I structured this so its more like an article than a list.  I also had some disagreements about the Titanic and Beos, for reasons I will explain.

I felt like the Titanic sinking was a tragedy, not a flop.  To me a flop would be more like giving it your best effort, and failing due to a complete misjudgement.

As for BeOS, it kept Be afloat for a very long time and had a dedicated fanatical user base.  I'd contrast this with the newton, that while it has a fanatical user base, the Newton was discontinued relatively quickly

Feel free to disagree with me and put it back if you disagree.  I'd think this article can be NPOV if we explain why each one was a flop, and on what measure.

Alan D.

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The Newton wasn't "discontinued relatively quickly". It was John Sculley's baby, and was only dropped when Steve Jobs (who had reportedly never liked the idea of pen-based computing) returned to Apple. There were something like ten different Newton models produced over the product line's four-year life. --[[User:Fubar Obfusco|Fubar Obfusco]]
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NeXT is not a flop - less than BeOS. It was a real technical success NeXT wasn't realy profitable but it din't went Bankrupt it's was buyed by Apple and is the basis for Mac OS X.
:NeXT was a flop as a hardware line. 
Yes but less than Be hardware. Jobs was Gasse model and Gasse made the same mistakes it may well some chances to become the CEO of Apple in 5 to 10 years :-).

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The Lisa is not a flop, even a minor one, it's a Mac before the Mac. Take a Lisa update technology, change your advertising and here is a Mac. The Lisa was a huge succes under the name of Macintosh !
:Um, the Lisa and Macintosh teams were different. The Lisa was a flop.

:Yep, the Lisa and the Mac had nothing in common.  It was a like a proof-of-concept; yes, we could build a computer with a graphical interface like the Xerox star.  But it was large, slow, expensive, and a marketing failure.  The Mac was redesigned from the ground up: new hardware, new OS, new software, new target market.  --[[User:Lee Daniel Crocker|LDC]]

update technology = new hardware, new software
change advertising = new market target
nothing more to say.
Mac = Lisa + lesson from experience and more work
Remember we should talk about <b>major</b> flops.
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Thousands of Lisas were physically destroyed so they could be used as a tax writeoff.  That's at least a "big flop".  I suppose "major" flop would be if it put the company in dire straits, like I've heard the Apple III did.  Really, any Apple Macintosh could be considered at least a "flop" (not Major) from the gauge that it was always intended to be a "computer for the masses".  It's always been "niche".

--alan d

Well Apple is still there not Atari not Apricot not Be not Amiga not Next not Wang.
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Microsoft Bob.  'Nuff said.  [[User:Modemac|Modemac]]