Revision 40006668 of "Talk:Eurasian (mixed ancestry)" on enwiki

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The "genetic supercluster" discussion has little to do with the established meaning of "Eurasian" and is longer than the rest of the article. Most of it belongs in the articles on said clusters or articles on human genetics, and duplicates the info already available in those articles.

==Stereotypes==
I added another section called Stereotypes of Eurasian people.  I feel that since this is an encyclopedia that we should list the facts.  ([[User:Kyla|Kyla]] 02:32, 19 September 2005 (UTC))

:Stereotypes are not facts.  Calling your race beautiful is not fact it is opinion. [[User:Jobe6|<font color="red">Job</font>]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<font color="green">E</font>]][[User talk:Jobe6|<font color="red">6</font>]] [[Image:Peru flag large.png|20px]] 23:11, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

::It is a fact that the mixed race of Caucasian/Oriental is the most attractive ethncity, but saying it is beautiful is an opinion. --User:UrineForGas 14:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


I added a sentence regarding attractiveness stereotype. The relevent citation is here: http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/beauty.pdf [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 06:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


Why did you change attractive to "sexually attractive"? The study I cited makes no mention of any sexual aspects; it is a study on the facial aesthetics. I'm going to change it back to "attractive". I also removed "mestizo" from the list of terms because it doesn't apply to eurasians.       [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 11:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry. I wasn't aware there was a difference between physical and sexual attractiveness. Thanks for changing it. User:Carie 13:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


The cited study does not involve stereotypes, it involves aesthetic evalutions of beauty and health. In other words, by changing "regarded" to "stereotyped", it implies that not only the claim is misleading, but also that the study was on perceptions of stereotype, which it is not. I am changing it back to "regarded". [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 00:12, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I didn't touch the "regarded" part. I didn't change it to stereotypes. I know what they mean by it. User:Carie 15:42, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


I wasn't talking about you. :)  [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 22:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


I reverted a sneaky delete that removed the aesthetics statement, even though it was backed by a scientific study. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 21:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

==Eurasian people==
I added a list of Eurasian people - is this O.K. ?

:I expanded it - added people listed in the Eurasians category. --User:UrineForGas 14:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

:"Kyoko Chan Cox — bastard child" was changed to "kidnapping victim".  "Bastard" is neither appropriate nor factual.

Why do some listings say "porn star" and others "erotic [film] actress"? (and are all of them really that noteworthy?)
[[User:Critic9328|Critic9328]] 22:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
:They are notable enough if they have a wikipedia, so I listed them. User:UrineForGas 13:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

::Well I think it makes sense the way it is now, just having Tera Patrick (I'm still not sure "porn star" is more accurate than "erotic actress", maybe "adult film star" is the best descriptor)--[[User:Critic9328|Critic9328]] 15:48, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


Why did you erase half of the list? [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 21:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm also going to remove non Eurasians like Paula Abdul and Sean Paul, because they aren't eurasian. Abdul is sephard and lebanese, Sean Paul is sephard and african. I'm also restoring a few of the more notable ones like Nancy Kwan and Tera Patrick. No reason they shouldn't be included. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 22:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I restored a few well known eurasians who were wrongly deleted. If we include Kate Beckinsale for being 25% asian, by that logic we should include Bruce Lee because he's 25% white. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 22:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

::Fine with me. I made the error about Sean Paul, he's actually blasian but I saw his picture on a eurasian web page once and I was like 'what the hell, he's not eurasian, he's blasian!" 
::As for Abdul, her mother is Canadian-Jewish, father is Syrian/Lebanese and Sephard, aren't Syria and Lebanon in Asia? Shannon Elizabeth is part Lebanese and part English and she's considered Eurasian.
--User:UrineForGas 00:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


The original "eurasian" refers to people half-Indian and half-British (19th century), but the modern connotation refers to east asian and european caucasian. Syria and Lebanon aren't really "asian" in any cultural or genetic sense. They're caucasoid just like Europeans. If we go solely by an oversimplistic geographic quantification, then we're going to have a pretty meaningless word.         [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 01:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)



This wikipedia entry is going to be obscenely long if we include virtually every eurasian known by more than a few people, but I'll leave it alone...for now. I will be removing entries of people who are NOT eurasian (such as Catherine Bell). This page is becoming unsightly, and most of the people you re-added are nobodies. I'm going to scour other similar racial quanfiers and if this is the only page with an obscenely long list of people, then it will be fixed. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 09:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)



To shorten the entry, try dividing it into more than 1 column (you can find the tag/template code for it on [[internet phenomenon]]) User:Carie 18:27, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you do it? You're the one who made it ugly. :P [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 19:38, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


[[List of Eurasians]] --User:Carie 20:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

*Good job on that page. - [[User:Matthew238|Matthew238]] 07:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

== Eurasian in fiction ==

I added a section for fiction and listed a film and a book pertaining to Eurasian. --User:UrineForGas 13:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

== Stop inserting POV weasel words ==

*[[Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view]]
*[[Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words]]

You have nothing but an agenda here.  It is to spread positive opinions about your own heritage.  This is not the website to brag about your multiracial background.  There are many websites on which to do that and you've already listed them.  It's taboo for Nordic Europeans to go on about their roots.  You don't see Nazis getting away with this sort of crap.  Don't even start because you're already finished!
[[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 07:06, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

:It was an actual case study at a University in Australia. How is it a weasel word? User:Carie 14:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

It's also POV matters.  You'll never find a study about Eurasian or any other heritage's aesthetics in the ''negative'', unless it comes from a "racist" community of people different from them.  Please keep this self-opinionated diatribe about your beauty to yourselves.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 18:06, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, the true agenda of (68.110.8.62) comes out!By all means feel free to post Nordic studies or whatnot under the appropriate wikipedia entry. The bottom line is that this entry is about half-white half-asians, and so a study on their aesthetics seems entirely appropriate. Unless you can actually REFUTE this study, it's staying up. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 10:01, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I said that neither Nazis nor other supremacists can cite biased nonsense in self promotion and you are obfuscating the issue.  Don't do it again.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 15:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

PS:  The University of Western Australia is fully immersed within Eurasian mixes, from a regionalist combination of White Aussies/Kiwis and half-breed colonial expats in Singapore and Malaysia.  This is undoubtedly a POV pushing problem and you yourself think that Uni status omits the testing of good faith on the matter.  Your additions sir, are NOT made in good faith.  Read the rules!  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 15:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I question whether the relative attractiveness of Eurasian individuals is truly encyclopedic, but ''if'' the contributors of this article decide to include that passage, ''don't'' use the word "confirms".  I recommend "suggests" instead, since it's less POV.  Also, please observe [[WP:CIVIL]] in the future.  That includes edit summaries.  Nazi references, in particular, are rarely useful. –[[User:Adashiel|Abe Dashiell]] <sup>'''([[User_talk:Adashiel|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Adashiel|c]])'''</sup> 15:20, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes sir.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 15:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

^You have no proof the study is "biased" or invalid. Like I said, feel free to find a refutation of that study and cite it. If you find a study showing Nordics are aesthetically well liked, then I don't see a problem citing it under the Nordic entries. I re-added the link and changed the wording to sound more NPOV, but regardless it's staying up.  [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 20:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

You are obfuscating your lack of good faith on the matter.  It is NOT ACCEPTABLE for people to brag about their heritages on the Wikipedia.  When you can do that(edit: restrain yourself), then people will see that you have self-control and won't abuse the website for your OWN PURPOSES!  It doesn't matter what YOU think is a problem or not, because rules are rules and this is a COMMUNITY!  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 06:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

No one is bragging about anything and no rules are being broken. Don't SF'ers have anything better to contribute than to harass multiracial/nonwhite wikipedia entries? [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 05:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

You continually use a [[straw man]].  I never once claimed to represent a racist group and my only chide was geared at racist people in general, purists and experimenters.  You lot who bring up the vices and virtues of race are all unwanted here at Wikipedia, regardless of what your background or orientation is.  Please, don't make this be your mission at Wikipedia.  If you do, I will report your ass.  This is not a forum for racists.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 06:15, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

You are accusing the accuser. Simply by looking through your edit history one can see your racial agenda. Stop with the red herrings and disruptive behaviour. [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 08:39, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to break it to you, but you have the exact same countenance of rabid racists and happen to be on the defencive after being caught red handed.  You can't fool anybody in returning the accusation.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 11:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

There's lots racist forums where you can post, one need not hover around wikipedia to quench their thirst. [[Stormfront]] You should heed this advice.   [[User:Sorrowek|Sorrowek]] 20:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

You seem to know so much about it, crybaby.  [[User:68.110.9.62|68.110.9.62]] 05:48, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

==Eurasians: The Begining?==
I remember seeing a documentery on a [[PBS]] back in [[2004]] (I think it was [[November]]) talking about some genes that where found in one man living in [[Khazakstan]] or some other former [[Soviet republic]] in [[Central Asia|Central Asian]].

I think the position of the show was that [[Europe]]ans and [[Asia]]ns came from a common ancestor who split in that area around the [[Caucausus]]/[[Black Sea]], and then inbread, becomming two destinct peoples seperated by the [[Siberia]]n tundra and the [[Caucausus]]/[[Ural]] mountains located there. Does anybody else remember this show? 

Also, can [[Bjork]] count as well? (She came from [[Iceland]]).
[[User:69.248.43.27|69.248.43.27]] 02:58, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

:Some people are saying she's half chinese while others say it's because people who came from cold lands resemble east asians. [http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000365.html] User:Carie 14:24, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

::Kind of inconclusive, but thanks nonetheless.
[[LynDon LaRouche|Ideocentric]] [[Roy Masters|RoyBot]][[User:69.248.43.27|69.248.43.27]] 01:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Although they are not Eurasian; Icelandics, Italians, Romanians and Greeks may closely resemble the Eurasian appearance. Or do Eurasians resemble the appearance of Icelandic/Italian/Romanian people? Something to mention in the article if it hasn't been mentioned yet. User:Carie 21:40, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

:Well, as I tried to make apparent, I personally have come to belief that both [[Caucasian]]s and [[Mongols]] are from a common ancestor, and that this ancestor(s) lived in Central Asia and Southern Russia before splitting and then inbreeding into two distinct races. I personally wonder about an actual "''Eurasian Race''" that pre-dates the two, and has still survived intact ([[Iceland]]ers and [[Eskimo]]s just may count, also notice the jaw on [[Native Americans]] is more [[teutonic]] then other [[Mongol]]oid people, suggesting that the Natives over here may have arrived before this split). Interestingly, I here the [[Scythians]] had green eyes covered by the fold, and I saw something on [[PBS]] last year about [[Amazons]], which determined that some [[Sherpa]] girls had the genes of an Amazon warrior unconvered in an [[Kurgan|ancient Russian grave]] (the girl's hair was a blond, the rest of her was clearly Asian). I would not think the [[Greece|Greeks]] or the [[Itali|Italians]] though (the [[Greeks]] and [[Latins]] where already inbred, they would have had little resemblance to their ancestors, and the modern day [[Italian]]s, like the [[Spanish]], have a huge ammount of [[Semitic Peoples|Semitic]] in them, naturally since they live near [[Arab|Arabian]] lands and where good at commerce). This is very unusual indeed, I am sure many epople on both sides do not wnat to hear this (except, maybe, for Slavs/Persians, of which I am a member).
[[Lyndon LaRouche|Idecentric]] [[Roy Masters|RoyBot]][[User:69.248.43.27|69.248.43.27]] 01:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

==Ice-T was right==

('''''Possible Vandalism Alert!  --[[User:IdeArchos|IdeArchos]] 05:21, 9 February 2006 (UTC)''''')

If it means that we end up having children as beautiful as the two young women picured, then I think we should all f**k till we're all the one colour. Am I right or wha?[[User:Fergananim|Fergananim]] 17:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

== A fellow Eurasian with a birth certificate to prove it. ==

I just want to be short and sweet.  I have a birth certificate that states that I am Eurasian. Can anyone out there provide the same?  I took a peek into the discussion page and the pages on Eurasians, I was impressed that so many talented people are listed and want to be recognized as being Eurasians. I must say it is nice...but, I truly believe that to be Eurasian you have to have it listed in your birth cert right? Also, as part of being Eurasian, I definitely know  all the mixtures that made my family Eurasian.
Thank you for reading my note...Angela (Eurasianjewel)

:Thank you for sharing. I do not think these sort of things are determined by birth certificates, only expressed in them (I am technically ''not'' Eurasian, my family on father's side is primarily [[Slavic peoples|Slav]]ic with some obvious, though miniscule, [[Mongolia|Mongol]] influence). I would strongly recomend a study of [[Slavic peoples|Slav]]ic, [[Persia]]n, [[Tibet]]an and [[Mongolia]]n culture, and a cross study of [[Plato]], [[Confucius]] and [[Zoroaster]] (The Persian [[Moses]]). --[[User:IdeArchos|IdeArchos]] 05:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)



'''Proper acknowledgement requires proper documentation.''' Being Eurasian of Eurasian race requires validation. Thank you for your ideas and views IdeArchos.  I was just looking at resolving a situation where I see a lot of noise going on.  My view is that since we are all governed by laws, then it is the law that makes or breaks the notion of being Eurasian. Since a legal document such as a birth cert is produced by a country with laws, then it stands to reason that one can truly claim that one is Eurasian because one is formally acknowledged in law and in the eyes of the law as being a Eurasian of Eurasian race.  

To add to this matter, on a formal note, the father is the determining factor in all this.  My father is of Eurasian race and so is my mother. They too each have birth certificates to validate and give authenticity to this matter of being Eurasian. I am not being difficult, just letting the world know that being Eurasian is something special to me and requires proper proof.  I grew up being the only Eurasian in my school, and in a large city. I was always treated differently, and I guess that added to my growing up thinking about my race and its meaning--being alone but strong and often standing up for myself.  Being acknowledge as a Eurasian should be done through proper documentation given out by a country with laws.  This is how one proves that one is actually Eurasian. I still stand by the fact that being Eurasian should be a fact acknowledged in law. 

Let us not make this a wishy-washy thing, being Eurasian is very important to me, to my family and their extended families.  Maybe it is time to let your officials who make the laws in your country look at this matter closely.  If you feel strongly about this matter, then you should seek legal advice to help you get your proper recognition.  I am acknowledged as being Eurasian by a country that has laws that are truly difficult to change, let alone make. If you or anyone would like to have this matter of being Eurasian hold some legal importance in your life, then you should make a legal move to have legal recognition in place in your country of birth to address this matter in a formal manner. Please, let me know how I may be able to help you in this matter. I will do my best. February 14, 2006 ,[[User:Eurasianjewel|Eurasianjewel]] 00:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)eurasianjewel'''

*Being Eurasian is not really a legal thing - different countries have different laws, and countries don't necessarilly list ones race on ones birth certificate. A birth certificate could say, for instance, that ones father was born in China and ones mother born in England, but it is race, not place of birth, that makes one Eurasian; you can be born in China but be of European ancestry; you can be born in England and be Asian. Yet if you wanted to get technicall, there is no such thing as Eurasian, or any "mixed-race", as there is no such thing as [[race]] (biologically speaking). It is all simply a social construct, and what "race" you are will depend on your society's particular views of, and classifications of, race. - [[User:Matthew238|Matthew238]] 03:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)