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Revision 903739 of "Imaginary_world" on enwiki==External Links:==
==I'm interested in comments on the EXTERNAL links listed below.
See: [[User talk:172/articles]]==
Wallerstein:
* [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/wallerstein.html Modern History Sourcebook: Summary of Wallerstein on World System Theory]
* [http://www.foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2002/wallerstein.html Pax Americana is over] (by Wallerstein)
Economics:
* [http://www.tnr.com/041700/stiglitz041700.html WHAT I LEARNED AT THE WORLD ECONOMIC CRISIS. The Insider by Joseph Stiglitz]
* [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_mahathirbinmohamad.html Commanding Heights with Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad]
* [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_johnkennethgalbraith.html Interview with John Kenneth Galbraith]
*[http://www.rh.edu/~stodder/SOVEQ3.html THE CASE FOR REDISTRIBUTIVE LIBERALISM] An interesting look at the East Asian economies.
China:
* [http://www.china-un.ch/eng/14905.html Jiang Zemin's Speech at the Meeting Celebrating the 80th Anniversary of the Founding of the Communist Party of China]
* [http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/dengxp/ Selected Works of Deng Xiaoping]
* [http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/26488.html Human Rights Record of the United States in 2001] (Information Office of the State Council of the People's Republic of China)
* [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/asia_pac/02/china_party_congress/leadership_changes/html/hu_jintao.stm Chinese Communist Party 16th Party Congress] (Leadership profiles from the BBC)
*[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/leaders/jzm/jzmhome.htm Life Story of Jiang Zemin] (from the People's Daily)
* [http://members.tripod.com/~journeyeast/hollywood_s_tibet.html Hollywood's Tibet]
* [http://www.tibetinfor.com/question_e/2/013.htm 100 Questions and Answers about Tibet]
Africa:
* [http://www.africana.com/DailyArticles/index_20021014.htm Germany Refuses to Apologize for Herero Holocaust]
* [http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4460659,00.html Belgium exhumes its colonial demons]
* [http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/lf41/na/may00/nacs0501.htm Why Mugabe is right]
* [http://www.bbjonline.com/mugabe-is-right.html Mugabe is Right, Whites Must Give Up the Land! by Koigi Wamwere]
Misc:
* [http://www.businessweek.com/1996/26/b348133.htm 'UNDER BREZHNEV, IT WAS BETTER'] (from Business Week)
* [http://www.fair.org/extra/9903/aei.html The American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and Racism]
* [http://www.iraqi-mission.org/ Permanent Mission of Iraq to the United Nations, New York]
* [http://campus.northpark.edu/history/Koeller/TII/EndSlavery.N.html The End of Slavery and Serfdom] Good chronicle of key dates and events in modern history.
* [http://www.punkvoter.com/quotes.html REAL QUOTES FROM A REAL MORON] (pertaining to the wit and the wisdom of President George W. Bush)
== Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz on the Transition (recommended): ==
* [http://www.cnb.cz/_vystoupeni/pdf/mmf_stiglitze.pdf Joseph Stiglitz Lessons and Challenges in Transition] (Transition in Russia, Eastern Europe)
--------------
===172's Contributions===
'''''Italicized articles still require significant revamping.'''''
'''Soviet Union/Eastern Europe:'''
* ''[[Leonid Brezhnev]]'' Embarrassingly short of biographical content or information on his career. Still a stub article.
* ''[[command economy]]'' Maybe more information on archetypical planning procedures of the Soviet-type economy is needed.
* [[Economy of Russia]]
* [[economy of the Soviet Union]]
* ''[[History of the Jews in the Soviet Union]]'' More chronology is needed.
* ''[[History of post-communist Russia]]'' More chronology is needed.
* ''[[History of the Soviet Union]]'' More on post-Stalin years, more chronology.
* ''[[Nikita Khrushchev]]'' Embarrassingly short of biographical content or information on his career. Still a stub article.
* [[Soviet Union]]
* ''[[Joseph Stalin]]'' Reads like a middle school report.
'''Latin America:'''
* [[Brazil]]
* [[coronelismo]]
* ''[[cangaço]]'' Very interesting subject matter, especially for those interested in uncovering overly-ignored areas of history, the role of class, and social history. See the talk page.
* [[café com leite]]
* ''[[Fernando Henrique Cardoso]]'' More needed on his policies as president. More needed on his contributions to sociology.
* [[Integralism]]
* ''[[Fidel Castro]]'' Still a very simplistic and superficial work.
* ''[[Luís Inácio Lula da Silva]]'' More needed on his unique ascendancy to the Brazilian presidency and the election of 2002.
* ''[[History of Brazil]]'' More needed on the years following the 1964 military coup.
* ''[[History of Cuba]]'' Still very superficial.
* ''[[History of Mexico]]'' Still very superficial.
* [[Luís Carlos Prestes]]
* [[Plínio Salgado]]
* ''[[Getulio Vargas]]'' More biographical information needed, which is entirely my fault.
'''China/East Asia:'''
* [[China]]
* [[Chinese historiography]]
* [[Deng Xiaoping]]
* ''[[East Asian Tigers]]'' You can never have enough content on this subject.
* [[Economy of Taiwan]]
* [[Four Modernizations]]
* ''[[History of China]]'' Stilly poorly-organized.
* ''[[History of the People's Republic of China]]'' More social history is needed. After all, Chinese society is undergoing the greatest revolutionary transformation within an individual's lifetime in history. Instead, sensationalized political debacles are over-emphasized.
* [[History of Taiwan]]
* [[Hongwu Emperor of China]]
* [[Hu Jintao]]
* [[Hu Yaobang]]
* [[Jiang Zemin]]
* ''[[Kim Il Sung]]'' Pretty much a stub article.
* [[Kim Jong Il]]
* [[kimjongilia]]
* [[List of Presidents of North Korea]]
* ''[[Mao Zedong]]'' Reads like an over-simplified partisan debate.
* [[Ming Dynasty]]
* [[North Korea]]
* [[Pol Pot]]
* [[Politburo Standing Committee of the Chinese Communist Party]]
* [[Wang An-shih]]
'''Age of Imperialism:'''
* [[British Empire]]
* ''[[Colonization of Africa]]'' Very Eurocentric. More needed on changes in African society.
* [[History of Belgium]]
* [[History of the Democratic Republic of the Congo]]
* [[History of the United Kingdom]]
* ''[[Imperialism in Asia]]'' Very Eurocentric. More needed on changes in Asian societies.
* [[Leopold II of Belgium]]
* [[New Imperialism]]
'''European History:'''
* [[History of Germany]]
* [[Irish potato famine]]
* [[capitalism]]
* [[Communism]]
* ''[[Fascism]]'' An embarrassingly superficial article.
* [[genocide]]
* [[Karl Marx]]
* ''[[Benito Mussolini]]'' Too much WWII trivia, not enough on his key role in the rise of fascism.
* ''[[Protestant Reformation]]'' Due to my shortcomings, the history stops at the 1530s. I'll add the rest soon.
* [[World War I]]
* [[World War II]]
'''US History:'''
* ''[[History of the United States]]'' Not yet a cohesive article. Some sections are strong. Some necessary sections aren't even there.
* [[Great Depression]]
'''Others:'''
* [[appeasement]]
* [[Saddam Hussein]]
* ''[[Robert Mugabe]]'' Serious NPOV problems.
* [[neoconservatism]]
* ''[[personality cult]]'' Some case-studies might be helpful.
* [[privatization]]
-----------
'''See [[User talk:172/Talk bloc 1]], [[User talk:172/Talk bloc 2]], for old talk, not pertaining to external links.'''
-------
Hi. Thanks for the nice words. I do try to be a conscientious editor. -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]]
You mean the troll might actually start reverting his own rubbish!!! *grin* [[User:Jtdirl|STÓD/ÉÍRE]] 04:52 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)
An anonymous user is paying attention to your [[History of the Soviet Union]] article and I have my suspicions that it might be the vandal formally known as Susan Mason. better keep a look out. Someone needs to check out their IP just in case. [[User:Jtdirl|STÓD/ÉÍRE]] 23:29 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)
---
Re: [[New Imperialism]]
I understand your reservations, but I'm sure it would be possible to ''split'' the article (as opposed to dumbing it down). Sorry if the comment above sounded a bit n00bic. [[User:erzengel|erzengel]] 15 Apr 2003 1533 UTC
---
There's going to be some professional overlap here. Contemporary Jewish history is my professional field. You said that what you wrote on Jews in the Soviet Union is a work in progress, so I am going to let it progress for a while. I cited Veidlinger as an example of one facet of the gradual persecution of Jews under Stalin. Personally, I do not think that it was something that popped up just before he died. Arkady Vaksberg (''Stalin Against the Jews'') traces it to "Marxism and the National Question," which he published in ''Enlghtenment'' in 1913. I personally think that his position is somewhat extreme, however, what he points to is that what makes historical figures interesting is not necessarily a uniform and cohesive ideology, but one that emerges over time and is wraught with contraditions, because what is really fascinating is how they negotiated these conflicts. Stalin was like that--particularly with regard to his policy toward Jews. As you've studied the period, you know how frequently and how often people switched sides and honed their views regarding the major debates of the day. There is no reason to assume that the leadership (incl. Stalin) was immune to this. Internationalism and the nationality question were certainly two key issues of the day. Finally, like it or not, many of the leading scholars of the period and the topic disagree with certain key aspects of the position you present in the article. You can certainly disagree with them, but there research and conclusions deserves to be heard as well. [[User:Danny|Danny]]
'''VANDAL ALERT'''
According to Tannin, a new user Olga Bityerkokoff is a banned ex-user. It might be Michael but possibly is Adam. *sigh* Tannin thinks it is DW/Black Widow. Either which way, revert revert revert. [[User:Jtdirl|STÓD/ÉÍRE]] 01:04 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
You not had a threat yet from that fuckwit 'Olga' yet? Darn it. You must be feeling left out. I've come across some piles of horse manure in my time but this crackpot really stands out. If only the nutter's intelligence was even half as well developed as his arrogance, he might be able to contribute something to wiki. But about all this fuckwit does is give everyone a laugh as they count down to his next banning. A prize asshole of the highest order who thinks we all don't know who he really is. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 02:43 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
have a good break, a chance to recover from The Susan Mason Experience. Not to mention Loopy Olga and Her Legal Fantasies. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 05:25 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
I left you a note in the "Soviet Jews" piece. Coincidental that we're going away for a few days at the same time? As my Polish grandpa would have said to your Polish grandpa, ''Gut yontif!'' [[User:Danny|Danny]]
Hi 172, if you get a chance, could you look at the abortion page. I looked at it some time ago and thought the article poor and ineffective. I showed it to people in both the pro-choice and pro-life camps who are friends of mine and they agreed. I did a re-write, showed it to both sides before inclusion and both sides believed the rewrite had far more intellectual depth and explored the issue in a couple of opening paragraphs in a far more intellectually rigorous manner that both sides were happy with. Sirub isn't happy through and keeps reverting to a version that both sides who have read it think weak and ineffective, and americocentric (the curse of wiki). In fact people on ''both'' sides pleaded with me to undo his version and restore the one I had placed in. As an academic and an intellectual, I would value your judgment. I don't belong to either camp on the issue (I suppose being gay tends to leave me out of the debate on reproduction!) but do think wiki articles need rigourous intellectual depth (eg, the whole Irish potato famine issue) rather than weak, rambling articles, of which we have far to many, that dodge around the issue rather than being able to clarify the central issues with clarity. Sirub's preferred version in my view (and those I have shown a print off to) fails to clarify the core issues for both sides and meanders all over the place, creating a rather mediocre narrative that is all too typically wiki (you own work and some of mine and some others excepted!). 'Slan" [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 19:18 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)
----
I agree with your substantive point, that Brezhnev presided over certain policy initiatives etc. I think this is exactly what the word "leadership" connotes -- when we yanks call Buch our leader, believe me, NO ONE thinks he devised the battle plan for Iraq, or our fiscal policies. For most Americans, at least, "tutelage" connotes "tutor" or "guardian." I do not think it is really accurate to suggest that Brezhnv was instructing his economic planners in the finer points of economic theory, nor do I think that he personally was "protecting" them -- it just is not an appropriate word in this instance.
You are invested in a larger point -- that men like Brezhnev, Andropov, etc. did not have as much power concentrated in their hands as some Western leaders. Frankly, I think you are wrong -- I think you overemphasize the power that US presidents have, and do not recognize the economic and political constraintes that have limited them. Be that as it may, the question (comparing the concentration ofpower in US vs. Soviet leaders) is an obviously interesting one, and given Western rhetoric about totalitarianism, a very important question. I think it merits elaboration -- but not in an article on the history of the Societn Union; perhaps something like [[Comparative Cold War Politics]]?
As I said, I disagree with your larger point. But ''even if you were right, even if I were to agree'', "tutelage" would still be a poor choice to communicate effectively your intended meaning.
I suggest that you leave my changes as they were, (i.e. keep tutelage out), but write a whole paragraph on the powers and limits to power of Party leaders.
Much as we all admire brevity, somethimes a concept is so complex that to reduce it to any one word will be to oversimplify or meerly mislead people. Perhaps there is a small group of experts in Soviet history who, reading the word "tutelage," would understand what you mean. But I assure you, the vast majority of readers, those who know only the barest (and partial/biased) outline of Soviet history, will not. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]
I should have listened to some people who advised me to avoid the abortion article like the plague! I was warned that there are some people there who throw wobblies if anything that passes as proper intelllectual challenges are mentioned; that they like the article all meandering, poorly written, politically correct and utterly and completely americocentric. And they were right. No wonder so many people have just decided to avoid the article like the plague. You were right to avoid it. If people want a dog's dinner of a mess, with all the intellectual depth of french fries and the sort of preoccupation with America that makes non-Americans' skin crawl, they are welcome to it. Maybe we should start the sort of article that some people on wiki think ''is'' encyclopædic; [[One legged bass guitarists from Nebraska who play songs that don't don't feature the title in the lyrics]]!!! I think I'll join the rest of the people who just gave up on the article and let those who are happy with a pass-rate americo-centric article keep tinkering with it to keep anything remotely intellectual out of it. How's the History of the Soviet Union going? Sorry for not getting to it; I was wasting my time trying to improve pass-rate articles elsewhere. At least I know what you are involved in an article it will have some intellectual depth. ''Slán'' [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 19:20 Apr 20, 2003 (UTC)
----
Thanks for your lengthy comment on my talk page -- I appreciate your responding to me. For what it is worth, I really am sympathetic to your position. My main point is that the word "tutelage" is less efective and accurate than "leadership" -- just a semantic point, not a substantive one. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that the content you wrote on my talk page should go in the article, and perhaps with even more detail. My sense for example is that CP politics and arrangements of power, and Brezhnev's leadership style, changed over the course of his "leadership" which ought to be addressed as well. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]
Hi 172. I've intervened again. I put on my best ''Mav'' voice (*grin*) to appear a mixture of authoritive, factual, respectful etc with a strong degree of "stop it or else . . ." Fingers crossed that ''this'' may stop the messing. ''Slán''. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 04:40 Apr 23, 2003 (UTC)
re-abortion - the article is such a mish-mash of cliché, of rampant americo-centrism, of POV-laiden NPOV that that is one article that should be entirely aborted, whatever your view on abortion! (but then maybe making a page that deserves aborting is itself POV by promoting one side of the argument!!!) I showed it some time ago to people I know on both sides of the argument and they all were agreed (wow! The first time the two sides ''actually'' agreed on something) that it was an embarrassing dog's dinner of a mess that was almost beyond salvage. I asked them what would help make it salvagable, they made suggestions. I wrote them up ''in front of them'', had them read every word to make sure it was acceptable, all sides accepted it, I put it in and all sides were happy for ages until Sirub came along, reverted all the changes, made the article ''even worse'' than before, made it even more americocentric (something I thought impossible) and stands guard over it like a clunking hen for fear anyone would touch his beloved egg. At this stage I am ''so'' tempted to put it on the votes for deletion page. But it really is an appalling piece of tripe, with all the intellectual insight and depth of a stale cheese-burger, with probably even less use. (Even Zoe would be hard-pressed to deny wiki's americocentrism on reading it.) I am not even going to look at the rubbish any more, it annoys me so much. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 04:59 Apr 23, 2003 (UTC)
It is absolutely mind-blowing. It is this side of wiki that gives me the creeps. Facts don't matter. People have their agendas, which of course in through wiki form, they delude themselves into thinking is NPOV, while everyone else is POV. AAAAGH. I know what my old political science professor would say if we had this discussion when I started studying history and politics all those years ago. This discussion would last all of two minutes in a tutorial, before he would announce "what a load of illinformed bollocks. If you want to get your exams, you are going to have to come up with something a lot better than this bullshit. Now go up to the library and read the Encyclopædia Brittanica, the World Book, etc. Get out your textbook. Read page 1 on definitions and don't deliver this crap again. Got the message?"
At its worst, wiki can be based on 5% knowledge, 70% opinion and 25% ego. This row sums it all up. Pathetic undergrad stuff that would not last five minutes of a college lecture. Bah! Humbug!!! [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]]
Will do what I can. I just got your note. PS, as a historian, I'd like your opinion on two pieces I have been working on. [[Appeasement]] which was a dreadful little POV rant that I am trying to turn into something useful and I'm sure you could add a lot more. Also [[Papal Tiara]] which probably isn't up your street but I'd like your views anyway. ''Slán'' [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 04:09 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)
----
Heh, I was just thinking while I was working on my own most recent massive edit of [[appeasement]] about how the original author oughtn't be appeased. ;) -- [[User:JohnOwens|John Owens]] 06:34 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)
:I think you misunderstood me, I'm very much in agreement with you on the [[Wikipedia:Brilliant prose|quality]] of that article. ;) When I first came across it, I was really torn between trying to make a halfway decent article out of it, and moving it right to [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion]]. Chop away, by all means. -- [[User:JohnOwens|John Owens]] 06:45 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)
I looked over that paragraph from China that you showed me and yes it needs dramatic broadening. It is overly simplistic and certainly not NPOV. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 18:40 Apr 24, 2003 (UTC)
That China discussion at this stage is getting nasty! SIrub has the wrong understanding of what we are talking abouth and ''no-one'' seems able to get him to understand it. BTW I created a stub on [[Communist state]]. Maybe you could take a look at it and do whatever re-writing is necessary.
O GAWD! This China nonsense is doing my head in. I feel like I am trying to teach sign language to blind people, or the Queen to rap. HELP! One of them now thinks nation=government. AAAAGH. And now they seem to be fighting among themselves. I'm heading off before I pull all of my hair out. And I thought dealing with politicians was bad!!! [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 05:22 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)
-------------------
I'm not quite sure if you directed the [[User_talk:Pratyeka|comment]] on my talk page to the right user as I haven't really been entering any of the debate, my sole belief is that any reference to anything should be defined properly when introduced, and thus remain NPOV. (Especially in this case, 'cause of the party being officially capitalist-welcoming and all...) All this marxist whatever waffle makes no sense to me. If you were responding to a comment I made, please do it in context on the talk page or with a link, so I can (try to!) get my head around it! Cheers... -- [[User:Pratyeka|prat]]
Poor niave Mav! We have a problem on the [[Communist state]] page. First of all I'd welcome your views on its contexts, which a lot of people have added a lot to, and you are better placed than I to spot the facts and the garbage. Secondly, [[User:Fred Bauder]] insists time and time again of adding in a distinct POV agenda, full of references to concentration camps, liquidations, etc. I have lost count of the number of revertions I have had to do. Is there any chance you could come on over look at what is there, and keep an eye out of any more Fred doctorings? I've put a note about his behaviour on the annoying users and vandalism page but he still keeps adding in his POV stuff, in the process screwing up other people's work (though whether that other people's work is good or bad I'll let you assess. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 02:27 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)
----
A brief note to thank you for your message on my page. I think in part there was a major misunderstanding, at least -- I think -- concerning what I was ''trying'' to say. I also do really believe that scholars right now are divided over the definitions and applications of certain words; when there are disagreements among scholars, researching an encyclopedia article becomes a lot harder. In any event, I am swamped with other word right now but promise you I will go back to History of the Soviet Union. In the meantime, I appreciate the work you have been doing there.
But I will reiterate a fundamental concern I have about both the China and Soviet Union articles. When scholars are divided, I think our job is not to choose a view (even a majority view) or to try to synthesize conflicting views; I think our job is to report that there is a debate among scholars. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]
* moved to [[user talk:Shino Baku/ban]]
Thankyou for your kind words on my talk page, 172. [[User:Tannin|Tannin]]
Can you '''guarantee''' it is an Adam-free space??? If so I'll be over there like a shot. :-) BTW Look at what Derek Ross said to Shino on the talk page to [[Communist state]]. You'll love it. PS: I wonder what is the Japanese for ''adam''? (I'll take a quick glance tonight, but as it is 5.54am and I promised myself that sometime this week I would be in bed before dawn - damn it, too late! Just looked outside and there it is. Again. *sigh* - and I am back from the pub after after few drinks (Jeez, that was 4 hours ago. How long have I been on this thing???) I'll just take a quick glance and look more thoroughly later. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 04:48 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)
I am only on for a few minutes (already 9 minutes more than I had planned) because I am exhausted after the last few days and believe it or not have non-wiki things to do also!!! [You can tell how much of a wikiholic I am; I just got out of bed to check something and am about to get back into it and finally go to bed in darkness, not dawn!!!] I am not an expert of Greece either. I do feature a bit about the Greek monarchy in a book I am writing, which involved reading a bit about Greek history and it was just on the basis of that relatively short reading that I found myself looking at the history page and being deeply unimpressed. But then of late I am used to the in depth analysis of history you, I, Deb and some others have been producing on a broad range of topics from the Irish potato famine to Roman Catholic church history, China to the British monarchy and Australian republicanism. Compared to that in depth stuff, this page is seriously weak. But then we must make allowances and help however wrote it improve on it. Anyway, to bed (yawn) and what for me lately is the ungodly early hour of 1.15am!!! [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 00:07 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)
''I know that jtdirl, mav, zoe, 172, jimbo and others view me as an "idiot cockroach troll from hell"; '' - words of supposed new user ''Like A Virgin'' Some questions & observations:
* Have you have any contact with them?
* Mav has been nice.
* I wrote a polite note saying that yes there were rumours that this is Adam VII but that as far as I was concerned I did not care and they would get no problems from me if they did not cause any Adam-esque problems. I got an earful in response.
* Nobody that I can see has called this new user a troll.
* As Jimbo doesn't edit much and is hardly ever seen, how come a new user seems to know of his existence? I didn't when I joined for weeks and weeks.
* The word Jimbo was mysteriously censored from a re-edit, as if it would look strange that this supposed new member had ever heard of him.
* On the wiki-list it was observed that this user has a strikingly similar edit portfolio to the various Adam family members, a similar edit style, (top) etc.
Just ''how'' many Children of Lir are infecting wiki these days? (And [[Communist state]] seems to draw them like flies!) [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 11:20 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)
----
I'm going to be very busy for the next couple of weeks, so my contributions will be scant henceforth. However, I'll be online and able to respond if there are any concerns regarding the articles that I've been activly revamping. [[User:172|172]]
----
[http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Zog/ban&diff=882594&oldid=882560]
In this edit [[user:Rosewood]] appears to be signing a comment as you
OK. I'm knee-deep in the [[Sugar Glider]] right now, but I'll take a break from that shortly (creating from scratch, as I'm sure you know all too well, is much harder work than copyediting and tinkering) and relax by doing some light copyediting and expression stuff on, oh ... the Stalin one perhaps. (Ohh my aching head! There are just not enough hours in the day to do everything I want to do!) Cheers -- [[User:Tannin|Tannin]]
: Thankyou. Just a tiny bit. But I'll chip away at it in odd moments on the "change is as good as a rest" theory. :)
: BTW, to become an admin, you need to send an email to the mailing list. (Sing out if you don't know how to do this.) You were ''persona non-grata'' there in the early days. Indeed, the reason I originally signed up for the list was to (a) speak in your defence, and (b) make a plea to ban Vera bloody Cruz. (And I firmly believe that time has proved me 100% right on both counts!) But that was quite some time ago, and I'm sure your stocks have risen considerably since then. I'll certainly speak up for you: your contribution to the history sections here has been outstanding. [[User:Tannin|Tannin]]
Thanks. I have been having major technical problems here. And it has been difficult getting on to wiki. I wrote something on a talk page at 3.30pm today but could only get onto wiki to put it on at 10pm tonight! I got a new digital camera so I spent a couple of days walking around Dublin talking pictures for wiki articles. (See [[Irish Houses of Parliament]]) God what so of wikiholic am I!!! I see the latest of Adam's trolls have disappeared. I think our 'no holes barred' attitude is working. Once he is rumbled, he knows the game is up and we will tolerate no messing! Anyway, thanks for the message. BTW you have my full support in joining admin. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 21:57 May 3, 2003 (UTC)
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We've had our differences and I still think you are not able to see your own POV sometimes (especially by selective presentation) but I will not oppose your application for Adminship (however I won't support it either). If Fred can be an Admin I guess you can too. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]]
You have my support too. [[User:Danny|Danny]]
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:Why is it inappropriate to move information on the People's Republic of China to the China page? 172
Because it's not the only country called China. There are two such countries - Republic of China and People's Republic of China. The same way as there are two Koreas, there were two Germanys etc., and it would be inapropriate to have article about one of them under Korea or (then) Germany. [[User:Taw|Taw]] 18:24 May 5, 2003 (UTC)
Opps. I meant to mention, well done on that bit about Fred and applying ''his'' approach. I went there, meant to come back to leave a msg, and got sidetracked. Oh the joys of wiki! [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]]
em . . . I think we have our wires crossed. I just read your last bit and found myself utterly perplexed about it. Then it dawned on me. Did you think that comment about 'another person . . . ' referred to you? If you did then I should have reworded it better, it actually referred to The Cunctator, who has been adding in Fred's stuff to the article tonight. (I have been doing reversions, as have you, though I think you thought you were reverting Fred's work. It was actually The Cunctator adding in Fred's work again.
At least I ''think'' that is where we got our wires crossed. Otherwise I am totally perplexed. lol [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 05:18 May 8, 2003 (UTC)
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It's rude to shout (USING ALL CAPS). You also need to learn about the ownership of Wikipedia articles; namely, that it doesn't exist. --[[User:The Cunctator|The Cunctator]]
You better look at [[China]]. Fred Bauder has 'done a Fred' there and littered it with POV stuff. Does this guy have a goddamned clue what the concept of '''N'''eutral '''P'''oint '''O'''f '''V'''iew actually means? Or does he think it does not apply to him? Re the nonsense on [[Communist state]] - I moved Fred's stuff to a different page, called [[Communist government]] (I named it something slightly different but Taku changed it to that.) So now Fred has his own scribble box on which to 'develop' his theories see can he actually produce something remotely NPOV. Maybe that bone will give him something else to play with for a while, and he will stop screwing up Communist state. Here's hoping. I know I am going to keep well away from that page. I wouldn't claim to have enough knowledge to deal with factual issues there; my expertise is in the area of constitutional structures, not the practicalities of communism. You are far better placed than I would ever be, but if I was you I'd let him be for a while, just to see can he actually achieve elementary standards of academic accuracy or wiki standards of NPOV. Frankly going on his previous work I doubt it. Maybe left alone with his plaything he ''might'' just do it. It might be wise to give him space for a while. He could perhaps surprise everyone yet and actually produce a quality piece that doesn't sound like a Ronald Reagan 'evil empire' draft speech. [[User:Jtdirl|ÉÍREman]] 00:49 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;width:300;">[[Image:JEdgarHoover.jpg]]<br><small>'''''In this file photo, Fred Bauder keeps track of his watchlist on Wikipedia for surveillance of Communist activities.'''''</small></div>
OK, you're starting to sound a little bit like [[User talk:Zog/ban|Zog]] now. -- [[User:JohnOwens|John Owens]]
Hey, it's satire in good fun. [[User:172|172]]
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