Revision 2014672 of "User talk:IBobi" on enwikivoyage

==Blocked==
Because of your complicity in directing legal threats against multiple users here, as well as actual lawsuits brought against Wikivoyage users and administrators, you are banned from editing on Wikivoyage indefinitely, pending a definite resolution of all said legal threats. At such a time (which would require a resolution to the suit filed by the Wikimedia Foundation against your company, Internet Brands, you may petition on your talk page to have the block lifted. For more information, see [[Wikivoyage:No real world threats]].

Legal threats have a chilling effect on public participation and are anathema to wikis.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 20:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

:What would the legal threat be? FYI the WMF Counsel specifically refuted any notion that I made or was "complicit" (?) in any legal threats against any WM user. You can check my WP talk page for that note from them. Unblock me & we can discuss Jpatokal's unscrupulous behavior with the WV community. Or keep me blocked and wait for him to strike WV. Your decision.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 21:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Also, Peter, stating that IB employees are "not permitted to edit Wikivoyage per"... what was the reason? Seems that you are making quite the bunch of unilateral decisions and actions without consulting either the WV community or policy. If you choose not to believe me about Jpatokal, there's evidence you can't refute. As I said, you can also just ask him and see what he says (and if he just admits it, which if he were smart he would, I'll accept your apology). But I doubt the community will see it as anything but harmful for you to simply dismiss such an allegation, regardless of who it comes from, without at least looking into it.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 21:14, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

::::Paul O'Brien, you are quite well aware of why you are not permitted to edit here, it's the policy [[Wikivoyage:No real world threats]]. While that alone is sufficient, you would probably be blocked in short order anyway, since there's no possibility that you or any other IB employee would be a constructive contributor (SPA, COI, constant trolling). It's for these reasons that you have been banned from Wikipedia as well.

::::I do want to thank you for being the precipitating cause for the start of the Wikimedia hosted Wikivoyage project. But take your personal moral and ethical corruption, legal threats, and social and economic vampirism elsewhere. We have work to do here, for free, for the benefit of the world.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

:::::1. Please make an effort to answer in some way the actual claim that was made against Jpatokal. Your COMPLETE ignorance of that claim as you attempt to persecute me personally is indefensible, Peter. Or perhaps there is some admin here brave enough to actually challenge Peter's Law?
:::::2. Again, take a short peek at what the WMF Counsel actually ruled about my personal WP account, invalidating your "legal" trumped up reason for a block here. In no way is an employee of a company involved in a suit the same as the entity doing the suing. You're ignorant of this fact as well, but that's by choice. This is entirely personal due to the fact that I banned you on Wikitravel for abuse of your own bureaucrat privileges, so it doesn't in the least surprise me that you'd stick your neck out for another bureaucrat engaging in predatory behavior, no matter what damage he does to the community that elected you here.
:::::3. Do you seriously believe this was just made up? If so, why not ask for the evidence? You don't have a leg to stand on.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 23:41, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

::::::Your attempted role here is just mischief and drama-creation to try to distract people here from doing real work, and I'm only going to address why you are blocked. Individual projects get to make their own rules regarding blocking policies, and ours exists mainly to limit the mischief making you can be involved with here. I couldn't care less about your banning me from a project I don't contribute to, but I do care a lot about your company harassing other individual Wikivoyagers and Wikimedians with frivolous lawsuits designed to intimidate those who dare do anything your multimillion dollar company doesn't like. Troll away, but I'm done here.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:49, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

==Remove the block on this User's Talk Page only==
Don't stoop to [[User:IBobi|IBobi]]'s level.

Just give him enough rope to hang himself. -- [[User:Alice/About_Me|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]][[Special:Emailuser/Alice|<font color="#FF3333"><sup>✉</sup></font>]] 21:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

<s>Incidentally, can we be sure this user really is Paul O'Brien?</s>

I personally am willing to exhibit my passport, driving licence, etc to a trusted, named individual (with a promise of confidentiality) but generally there is always some doubt about posters identity on Wiki's... -- [[User:Alice/About_Me|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]][[Special:Emailuser/Alice|<font color="#FF3333"><sup>✉</sup></font>]] 21:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

:For one, he's editing from an IB ip. For two, your account is permanently blocked on Wikipedia for sockpuppetry, and are just a few steps away from a checkuser investigation on this site. Trying to turn this into unnecessary drama will speed that up.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:38, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

: No, we cannot be entirely sure that IBobi here is IBobi from WT, hence Paul O'B, but he (she?) is clearly either that or a very good impersonator and claims to be the same person.

: The policy is clear "If you initiate a lawsuit against Wikivoyage or one of its contributors, regardless of whether it is done on wiki, you are required to refrain from editing here until the lawsuit is resolved. Failure to refrain from editing under those circumstances will likely result in a ban with prejudice." Paul works for IB who initiated a suit and, as far as I know, that suit has not been resolved.

: I don't know what "with prejudice" means here and the policy does not seem to cover the case of employees, so maybe it needs some revision, but in the meanwhile banning him seems obviously sensible to me. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 21:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

::The whole reason for the policy was to preclude Internet Brands from mischief making here (since we've never had problems of this nature from any other party), but I've made it explicit now.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:53, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

:::AFAIK, Pashley, the suit initiated by IB has been dropped because they dropped the federal Lanham Act claim, leaving no jurisdiction for the federal court.  They may re-file their other claims in California state court, but I don't know if they will or not.  The remaining legal action is a request by WMF for summary judgement declaring that IB has no right to interfere in the establishment of WV as a WMF project.  (To Alice: If the account ISN'T actually Paul O'Brien, then it ought to be blocked for impersonation; it's hardly a defense.)  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 22:05, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

::::It now seems pretty [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3APashley&action=historysubmit&diff=1961767&oldid=1961760 clear to me that this was '''not''' a case of impersonation.] If it was impersonation then I do agree that the account should be blocked - but never a User's Talk page - that is contrary to natural justice.
::::If [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] is correct (and he usually is) then there is no longer any basis in policy for emulating IBobi's outrageous behaviour at Wikitravel and continuing his ban. This community should be demonstrating that we are more transparent than the petty censorship exercised by IBadmins!
::::This is obviously an emotional case - especially for poor Jpatokal - but I do think that wide-sweeping policy changes should not be made on the hoof while feelings are running high. There needs to be a rational policy debate about employee/private status and whistle-blowers.
::::PeterF: Your ''ad hominem'' attack is totally uncalled for and I call on you to strike it. I am nobody's sock. It was only the Provisional IRA team at Wikipedia that got me banned as a sock because they could not win a rational content debate concerning the excision of the numbers and types of victims of bombings. That Wikipedia block is under appeal and I am perfectly happy to prove my ''bona fide''s in person and with cast iron ID! I am '''not''' blocked at any other Wikimedia Foundation project. -- [[User:Alice/About_Me|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]][[Special:Emailuser/Alice|<font color="#FF3333"><sup>✉</sup></font>]] 22:41, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

As I stated above, and as the WMF legal counsel stated on my WP talk page, Peter's interpretation of policy on legal/real world threats does not apply here. I've made no threats, nor have I sued anyone. Peter is acting entirely out of bounds with policy. It reflects very poorly on this community if his unilateral decisions about member accounts are not challenged at all. He's got a personal vendetta. Fine. But why allow him to use this community forum to prosecute it? And allow him to protect an unscrupulous inter-wiki vandal by doing so? I don't get it.
: (EC) Actually, this message illustrates precisely why.  Your ''modus operandi'' appears to be to attempt to divide the former Wikitravel editing community by tattling on various members whenever they step over certain lines.  (Never mind that in many cases, they're the ones who ''drew'' the lines in the first place.)  You appear to be implying that WT and WV could get along if only we'd punish these horrible anti-IB zealots -- and let you continue to point out their transgressions, of course.
:As has been stated multiple times, you and IB had the opportunity to make the split an amicable one, and you and IB chose to make it acrimonious instead.  That's ''your'' decision, not ours, so it rather makes your fairly petty complaints look like crocodile tears.
: -- [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 00:00, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

If you're ok with Jani's behavior, you could just say, "I think it's perfectly ok for a male bureaucrat of this wiki to hunt down the personal details of a female user of another wiki and post them on her otherwise anonymous user profile." That would make this a lot easier.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 00:26, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


:::I will reproduce, below, what Peter has now twice deleted from the Pub (why?), which includes both what Jpatokal did at Wikitravel and another Wikivoyager's (Pashley) comment on that. Peter unilaterally deleted it and maybe he'll keep doing so, counter-policy. There STILL has been no attempt to ascertain the validity of this claim, even including asking Jpatokal if he denies it.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 23:56, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

== Jpatokal unscrupulous behavior on another wiki -- is this a Wikivoyage administrator? ==

[http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Jpatokal This Wikivoyage user] has recently been making anonymous IP edits to Wikitravel user talk pages (not my own). He has inserted links to the personal Facebook, twitter, and Linkedin social media accounts of at least one female Wikitraveler who he managed to connect to her Wikitravel username. This behavior is completely unscrupulous, and he's been blocked on Wikitravel.
	 	
He used the same IP address (14.201.15.71) he's used for years on Wikitravel to edit his own talk page, and also left evidence of his presence on that female Wikitraveler's Linkedin page.
	 	
This is not the first interwiki vandalism he has partaken of, but it is the most predatory to date. Be aware, he may deface Wikivoyage as well, and should probably be tracked on the languages he generally prowls: English, Japanese, Chinese, and Finnish. If he also has administrator privileges at Wikivoyage, you will want to address that. I can provide electronic evidence to any disciplinary investigators as required. Thank you, --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 20:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

: Interesting claims, but considering that he has been around WT longer than IB, let alone you, and I have seen much good work from him, I'm not inclined to believe them. Checking [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/14.201.15.71], I see nothing interesting. I cannot check the female IB staffer's Linkedin page because i am not connected to her. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 20:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
	 	
::As I said, there's evidence if PeterFirzgerald cares to stop blocking both my account and IP address against policy here. Why not ask Jani if he did it, and start there? Now, can my IP be unblocked so I can address Peter's false legal claims on my Talk page? <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User_talk:IBobi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/IBobi|contribs]]) </small>


:::It's quite clear that you are not here to write a travel guide... you're here to push an agenda or post personal attacks against other Wikivoyage users. I see no benefit to the project in leaving this page as anything but "edit=sysop, move=sysop" with any existing blocks left in place, although ultimately that's for an administrator to decide. [[User:K7L|K7L]] ([[User talk:K7L|talk]]) 02:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)