Difference between revisions 17131859 and 17132210 on enwiktionary

==''[[cane]]'' and ''[[can]]'' in [[w:consilience|consilience]] ==

{| align=center
| width=50% |
 eng:	{{l|en|cane}}
 esp:	{{l|es|caña}}
 fre:	{{l|fr|canne}}
 ita:	{{l|it|canna}}
(contracted; show full)

:: For example, the {{term|sugar}} originally meant the gravel, while [[糖]] has ever meant the same thing so that it could serve as a bench mark. Should both get together as I had them, the former could be defined or refined more precisely. Furthermore, the latter helps fast in case you look for a hanja for sugar. Hanja may be the greatest semantic heritage for us all, I guess. 

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:: How again and again I wish everyone here behave oneself! 
:: --[[User:KYPark|KYPark]] ([[User talk:KYPark|talk]]) 04:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)⏎
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::: Wrong. Sugar comes from Sanskrit, not from Chinese. The Chinese character has never been used for the Sanskrit word or any of its descendants. A Chinese character doesn't belong in the [[sugar]] entry any more than Tongan [[tō]] belongs in the [[糖]] entry. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck Entz]] ([[User talk:Chuck Entz|talk]]) 04:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

:: How again and again I wish everyone here behave oneself! 
::: You can start by behaving yourself. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck Entz]] ([[User talk:Chuck Entz|talk]]) 04:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

:::: It's you who are wrong. Who said that {{term|sugar}} came from Chinese and that it was used for the Sanskrit word? I said neither! Why is it too bad for English entries to have Chinese in reciprocity while it is so good for Chinese entries to have English? BTW will you interdere with my wishes? --[[User:KYPark|KYPark]] ([[User talk:KYPark|talk]]) 04:16:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC) ⏎
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::: You can start by behaving yourself. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck EntzThat is ridiculous, KY. We are a dictionary. We don't add hanja to English entries because they are "picturesque" or "static and clear" or "the greatest semantic heritage for us all". Those are opinions; we deal in facts. Furthermore, English entries are subject to [[WT:ELE]] and [[WT:AEN]]. --[[User:Metaknowledge|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge|deeds]]''</sup></small> 04:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

:::: [[WT:ELE]] and [[WT:AEN]] ever did and would change. I'm afraid you don't understand how vital it is for wikis to experiment with new ways for such changes for ever. Yeah, WT might be most conservative in this perspective. --[[User:KYPark|KYPark]] ([[User talk:Chuck EntzKYPark|talk]]) 04:36:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)  

: There are two etymologies here. The western one traces back to borrowing from Hebrew {{term|קָנֶה|tr=qane|lang=he}}, or from some other Semitic language, into Greek and Latin, and from them throughout the languages of Europe. The eastern one is from Chinese, borrowed with or without the character [[罐]] (the character {{l|ja|缶}} doesn't belong here, since it means "jar", not "cane" or "pipe"). The Middle Chinese form is transliterated as "*guǎn", and the Semitic one starts with some variant of the uvular stop q, so it would seem that they started out different and have converged over time. If you want to claim these are all the same, you'll have to show how the Semitic and the Chinese are connected. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck Entz]] ([[User talk:Chuck Entz|talk]]) 04:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

::That is ridiculous, KY. We are a dictionary. We don't add hanja to English entries because they are "picturesque" or "static and clear" or "the greatest semantic heritage for us all". Those are opinions; we deal in facts. Furthermore, English entries are subject to [[WT:ELE]] and [[WT:AEN]]. --[[User:Metaknowledge|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge|deeds]]''</sup></small> 04:41 I'm very glad that you take into account the oriental thread. In Japanese, {{l|ja|缶}} is practically the same as {{l|ja|罐}}, meaning "pitcher, can," differing from {{l|ja|管}} "tube, cane." I'd never argue "these are all the same," especially both {{l|ja|管}} and {{l|ja|罐}} that definitely differ much more than English {{term|cane}} and {{term|can}} that are etymologically quite confused in concert hence a remarkable ''consilience''! This is not my subjective thesis or theory at all but an objective note or report. It's up to you or us how to interpret this unusual concert. Cheers. --[[User:KYPark|KYPark]] ([[User talk:KYPark|talk]]) 06:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)