Revision 6609393 of "Talk:Rocky Marciano" on simplewiki

==Marciano or Marcune fight?==
January 2 1956, New York, was Marcune Marciano replacement because name sounds so similar?
That was to be Rocky's 50th fight 1/2=50! Strange, spooky!@
==New York fight==
I am not including the possibility of Feb 3 1956 fight in New York, St. Nichols arena or Madison Squre Garden but if Rocky agreed, it might have happened. Sounds rational.

==Comeback==
In the Everett Skehan book about Marciano, it discusses his desire to comeback and fight Johannson. There was no mention in the book about any rematch clause with Patterson being the reason Marciano did not make the fight. Marciano went back to the gym, trained for a month, and then gave it up. That's it. 

I wrote about this on the English Wiki with proper citation. Here, however wants to continue inserting unproven speculation about this. If you can back it up, that's fine with me. Just post a source here that says what you are saying. Until then, I'm going to keep taking it out because as far as I know it's inaccurate.

The same goes for his supposed 50th fight. I've never heard any mention of this from anyone besides you. What source are you using as a reference on this? [[User:MKil|MKil]] 20:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)MKil

<p>First, first, first of all, this mkil guy should not be here. I NEVER, NEVER, EVER said anything on Rocky's 50th fight, except a possible exhibition nobody recorded. Mkil, I demand you stop accusing me of your stupid persecution manias.
First of all this person has bw problems and he probably goes to bad thinking he is bwear. I will prove this guy wrong 10000% on many things, Take any good book and read this, and not all will talk about it - the following is also a good reply to this 24-7 vandal:

<p>In 1959 Marciano decided to make a comeback against Ingemar Johansson. Some sources (Lou Duva) said that he was to handle the Marciano-Johansson fight. Some other sources say that Marciano's uncle had talked him out of coming back, that, all the years of eating rich food, lack of excercise and doing other things did not help rocky get into shape. Others say the deal fell through because Johansson failed to beat Patterson in the rubber match. Others say that because Johansson was no longer champion that a Marciano-Johansson fight wouldn't have generated the money that Marciano wanted. 

Author Everett Skehan states that Marciano trained for a month, and then decided to not come back---but then again, later on in his book he states that Marciano trained harder than he ever done in 1969 for the filming of the 'Superfight' between him and Ali; that if the punches suddenly became real he would be ready to win. 

So it doesn't quite make sense that a 1959 Rocky would have felt that he would have lost to Johansson whom he felt was an 'amateur', yet would be prepared to take on Muhammad Ali who was only a year or so removed from his title reign. 

I know that a contract was written up, and Duva's story does seem to solidify that that a deal fell through, not because Marciano wasn't ready and willing to prepare for a fight with Johansson but THE CONTRACT DEMANDED A REMATCH WITH FLOYD and therefore Rock had to hope Ingemar would win again! Sources, why should I give you any sources, i have many, but you will revert them anyways. No thanks.
20:53, 3 May 2007 [[User:Freddy|Freddy]] 20:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC) (UTC) Here I created userpage, so you can stop calling me names.
:You keep putting in something about talk of a 50th fight that never happened. All I ask for is a source. Just point me to a book that mentions it. I've read a variety of things on Marciano and I have yet to find any support for this.

:If you have something that quotes Duva talking about a Johannson fight, I'd love to see it. You always say you have sources but you never provide them. All I'm asking for is to see your sources. Is that unreasonable? [[User:MKil|MKil]] 21:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC)MKil

<p>Ok, I will do that,if you call me by my wiki name, show some respect, we can talk a little. But do not call me stupid names, i do not care about your maniac like suspicions. This has nothing to do with sources but your terrible approach towards others. 21:20, 3 May 2007 [[User:Freddy|Freddy]] 21:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

:Fine, Freddy. What sources are you using? [[User:MKil|MKil]] 21:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)MKil
<p>Finally, some civility...From Mr. Sugar = himself= and there are many many more our there, I did investigate your case on normal wiki, you really screwed up that article, I don't want to touch it even, it will take too long to fix it.
<br> sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/news/story?id=2605882
:Interesting article, but I didn't see anything in it that talked about Marciano's proposed comeback. I also didn't see anything about a proposed 50th fight. You say the sources are out there, so I'm asking you once again to produce them. [[User:MKil|MKil]] 21:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)MKil 

:Also, please do not edit my comments. I'm pretty sure that's a violation of Wiki rules. You can only edit your own comments. [[User:MKil|MKil]] 21:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)MKil
<p>First of all you confused person, I never, ever, ever in these articles said anything about 50th fight(he never had one) nor have I ever EVER reverted anything on 50th fight only on Johansson fight, I gave you the link, if you can not read, go and learn, it's in there info on the contract, so go and bother somebody else.And I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING NAMES HERE.
And I do not appreciate you call me other names, because this is not proper, so I will edit calling me names, I am not killing your edits. We are talking here about Ingemar fight that never happened in 1960, because of contract and nothing else. I am totally sick of your pathetic behavior and approach. You have been known to cause problems to others and arguing with you will only bring about additional arguments, so you can have them and leave them for yourself. Also it is obvious we know he wanted to come back, the link is about patterson's contract, not rocky's contract, so again, this shows your ignorance and lack of judgement.
Freddy
:If you'd like, an administrator can do a check on you and prove my point, just like what happened on the English Wiki. Three, you continue to put in something about a proposed fight for January of 1956. There is no evidence any fight was planned for then, so I'm taking it out. 
:As far as the Patteronson contract, that's pretty irrelevant. The Skehan book (the only source I've found for the Marciano comeback discussion) says that Marciano went into training and after a month of doing that, he decided not to challenge Johannson. It says nothing about the Patterson rematch clause being the issue as you think. If you have a source that says that Marciano didn't come back because of the Patterson rematch clause, I'd like to see it. You continually claim that you have sources but you never produce them. [[User:MKil|MKil]] 19:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)MKil
:Do not call me Curps or whatever you call me, its very unprofessional, ok, you agreed you will not call me by my other name, so we can resolve this, ok, read link- fine, but I do not appreciate calling me curps, bw or whatever else, they can check anything they want. You were given the source, it says Floyd had rematch clause and because of that Marciano was legally unable to fight Ingemar, that is common sense, I DO not appreciate calling me other names, you can email me and call me there, but not here, that is against he rules of civility, so just do not call me names, because you are not helping the situation, ok. Now, since you do not want to read the link I sent you, go ask other authors and boxing historians and when you are proven wrong and civil enough, email me, so we can resolve this page, how about that? But I am warning you for last time, stop calling me I was Curpos or Bwear or whoever, ok, I may be from same IP or know them but I do not appreciate your lack of civility. As far as early fight goes, it's all over the internet, I did not say planned fight but there was talk of a possible fight. So, learn how to distinguish terms. From now on, I will reply from private email. How would you like if I write incorrect info on you? I am sure people are reading this and laughing at both of us, mostly at you. I have no problem proving you are wrong on contract issues. Use common sense. Do not give me idiotic replies anymore. Read, you are breaking all the rules: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Rules
15:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC) [[User:Freddy|Freddy]] 15:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
:Again, do not edit my comments. And I will certaintly not e-mail you directly, since I know you'd love to have my e-mail address. If you want to talk about this issue, do it here. 
If you say there was talk of a fight, then prove it. All I ask for is a source. You always say you have one and you never produce it. 
:On the Johannson fight, I'll grant that Patterson had a rematch clause. However, the way you write it is that Marciano didn't fight Johannson because of the rematch clause. The Skehan book doesn't mention this as a cause at all. It says that Marciano trained for a comeback and after a month of training decided against it. According to that source, the rematch clause had nothing to do with it. When Marciano began training for a comeback, he knew of the rematch clause and yet he still started training. Obviously the rematch clause wasn't an issue to him and was not the reason he decided to abandon his plans. Unless you can come up with a source that says what you say, I'm removing it because it's inaccurate. MKil 17:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)MKil 

==Correct Version==
http://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rocky_Marciano&diff=404191&oldid=404190
Even though there is enough evidence to go against vandal mkil who can not adhere to ethics of not calling people names, let's point out few things: The above link from Mr. Sugar says a contract demanded a rematch with Ingemar that means nobody Frazier or ROcky, whoever was not able to fight Ingemar before Floyd. As far as other things go January 2, simply search on boxrec. The contributors are professionals, so all these things could be verified on the internet, it's amazing nobody does anything but at least let this version remain on this talk page. For others to decide. As far as Skehan book goes, keep in mind it's only one book, who knows if a book written by somebody else is correct in the first place, let us not forget all these books have been written after Rocky's death. So the information did not come from Rocky directly to the authors. However if people want this rocky bio and on big wiki incorrect, hey so be it. You do not want to listen to an expert who wrote for a fine boxing magazine, so be it, shows your perfect ignorance of the matter. 
<br> Once again sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/news/story?id=2605882 Now, certainly I will not tell you where that one sentence is, find it yourself great contributors. Thank you for destroying the biography here.
[[User:Freddy|Freddy]] 15:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
:Freddy -- please stop removing my comments from this talk page. [[User:MKil|MKil]] 15:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)MKil
No, that has been explained, mkil vandal is comparing me to other users, I am only deleting those names, read above the link to no personal attacks, this is very unprofessional, so i am requesting of you, as I explained to you 100 times, do something about mkil, do it now, ok, also look at my contributions and corrections i made towards mkil's work and I am not attacking him like that, am I, so stop being on his side, you are the one who warned him on civility not me, I follow it. Freddy 15:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 
<p>Note, these are personal attacks, calling me other names like Curps or something else, which I am not, Mkil is doing this to get me suspended, follow your policy of no personal attacks.<p>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_personal_attacks and your apology is rejected and it was not honest: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Freddy <p> Rocky bio is missing tons as usual. So fix it.

== Stop arguing ==

PLEASE stop arguing and actually try to work together to build this encyclopedia. If you two can't work together, then either one or both of you should leave, or at least agree not to edit the same pages. [[User:Sean William|Sean William]] 21:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
<p>Here's more evidence on the book reference in regards to Ingemar fight, now don't ask me for page number...:
Lou Duva has went on record stating that as the reason. 
Russell Sullivan, author of "Rock of His Times" cites Lou Duva as his 
source. That's as straight forward as you can get; a recent book 
quoting a person who is still alive and he did not dispute it! All the answers to January and Ingemar is 100 % accurate and proper! [[User:Freddy|Freddy]]